What if police fall upon evidence of a shoplifted candy bar, by means of beating it out of a child? They have the limits for this falling upon evidence, and coercion, action without reasonable suspicion, and search without consent or warrant are not within those limits…thankfully. I don’t think I’ve ever had any illegal items in my car (maybe people not wearing seat belts), but I don’t want a cop going through my vehicle or trunk, simply because I am true to my word. My word should be enough, without reason to the contrary, because I am innocent until proven guilty, not searched and searched until proven guilty of something (which seems possible considering the variety of laws on the books).

While I don’t like that guilty people go free because of illegal procedure, it seems to be the necessary evil to protect the innocent of illegal procedures. The fear of letting criminals go free (a wasted investigation, if not spent doing it right), is what keeps officers on the ball, accountable, and encouraged to follow procedure.

Also, I guess it depends on the sufficiency of evidence. I’d rather have a prosecutor bluff a smack dealer, and get him to do 4 years for a lesser crime, than to have no case at all. But then, I don’t care so much if a murderer gets Death or Life in Prison, just so long as he at least gets Life in Prison without parole. I have a hard time believing in rehabilitation, but I strongly believe in protecting society from proven problems.

If we didn’t let people out of prison, they wouldn’t have to come back to it. They’d be home already, and could save someone victimization.

Inevitable Discovery: Does anyone else find this a bit overkill as an exception to the exclusionary rule? I agree that there are other laws in place (concerning interrogation and coercion) that help keep inevitable discovery ethical. This seems to skip due process altogether. If you will eventually discover something by lawful means, then do so. But, if you have to use unlawful means (which is the only other option I see available) then there should be no exception here (two unlawful acts don’t make a just case in court). I don’t think the book uses a good example of inevitable discovery, it is somewhat vague. Mr. Palmer, or anyone, if you know any better examples of more convincing cases of “inevitable discovery", I’d like to hear them.

I think the “good faith” exception is pretty good, except that it seems to be protecting the cop’s intentions rather than the citizen’s rights. If there is something wrong with a warrant that is not the cop’s fault, whose fault is it? If it is the judge’s fault, the judge should have to face the consequence of not being careful enough in his work to establish a good warrant. Which is to say, yes, it might let some criminals go, but that’s a failsafe that keeps the justice system ordered and fair. What’s the justice system without order?

I’d also say that the fact that so much authority, improvisation, reasoning, and people skills are needed to be a good officer of the law, that education needs to be a requirement…especially considering how tolerant of other types of people and thought-patterns LEOs have to be. Enforcing and upholding the law, with as much discretion as police are permitted, requires knowledge of the law. This is, by no means, a job that should be left solely to DAs, Lawyers, and Judges.

At least in my experience growing up in SLC (with DARE, and other school education programs), I think law enforcement does a decent job of getting in touch with the community. I’d hate to stress that they need to be more in touch with the community, when I hardly know my own neighbors (after 5 years).

My guess is that, this being Utah, we are probably one of the more amiable police forces in the states. In my encounters with other state’s police (Oregon, Nevada), they’ve probably been a little biased in treatment simply because out-of-state plates, which may cause them to be more cautious and more invasive.

Technology, like with the rest of us, may increase efficiency and tackle problems faster, but definitely decreases community involvement. Rather than walking through marketplaces (strip mall, businesses) and saying hello to the store managers and people in the community, police wait in squad cars in a parking lot, working at their laptops until dispatch has another call.

Which ever way they go, I suppose the grass is always greener. We, the community, will always have something to whine about.

I like the idea of keeping kids busy, but I think outdoor sports, after school elective programs, and jobs are much better than television and video games (like what I was raised on).

I hadn’t even thought of Neighborhood Watch as one of the major community relationship programs between the police. One thing I really appreciate from the Fuzz lately is that, when some new neighbors moved in to our old folks neighborhood, across the street from me, (who acted really shady, drove Escalades and BMWs, ages 18-30, and none of whom seemed to have jobs…sitting on the porch all day with their shirts off -males), after about 3 months someone called the cops and said, “We all have a pretty good idea that these guys are criminals. Can you come arrest them?” Sure enough, detectives in unmarked and tinted-windowed cars (the same cars which had been suspiciously circling the neighborhood for weeks), took them away in cuffs along with a driveway full of stolen goods. We’re not sure, but the fact that someone in the neighborhood claimed to have seen them steal an air compressor from their back yard (they probably just assumed it was them), gave the cops the go ahead to bring them down. The residents would load and unload an empty vehicle for hours at a time (as if finding ways to hide drugs or something beneath the carpeting). Also, they would spend 2 hours in the middle of the night attaching, or fixing something underneath the vehicle, without any lights. Another suspicious activity is pulling cars and trailers up to the garage door, leaving about an inch from the door, and several feet on the other side of the vehicle…to block vision of what was being carried in and out of the trailer. And of course, at any hours of day and night, a car would pull up, a guy would go out to the car and talk with him, leaning into the window, then the car would drive off, cars that don’t live there, and many different vehicles (business of some sort). Sure it sounds like I’m a snoop from a Hitchcock movie. But this stuff was blatant, and out of the ordinary. Thanks for listening, but the point is, the police were on the case. They knew the score. Some of the suspicious cars were actually cops trying to nail the guys, but it was the neighbors, who were present during the incriminating events, and the cops needed the help of the neighborhood to nail down when and what was happening, so that when the bust was done, the evidence would be attainable.

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